Kodak NXH plate

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Re: Kodak NXH plate

Postby alanc1 » Fri May 09, 2008 2:31 pm

the plate reads 50.1% on bataflex
after printing the stock read 56.3%
look like a very good curve
there has to be some press gain and I would imagine, that curve has to be built in
AC
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Re: Kodak NXH plate

Postby Infinite » Sun May 11, 2008 12:25 am

Hi Alan,
A few questions:
1) Does the FlexCel also work on other plate (Asahi/Flint/DuPont)than Kodak plate?
2) Does Kodak sell only the Laminator and Kodak FlexCel NX?
3) What is the price for the TIL(Thermal Image Layer) in roll/square foot?
Thanks!
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Re: Kodak NXH plate

Postby ramirez » Wed May 21, 2008 1:47 am

Guys

You're confusing everybody with the 1:1 and the 50% print.

Do you know the difference between the type of measurement done on the flexo plate and print?

You measure the plates geometrically, and the print visually, with a reflectance densitometer probably. There is light absorbtion involved in the reflective measurement. A 50% geometrical gray area should measure based on reflectance and Murray-Davis formula as 67% +/- the paper characteristics.
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Re: Kodak NXH plate

Postby Mr.Black » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:45 pm

Hi Alan,

Can I ask you what material you are printing on?

To answer Infinite's questions..

1) does not work with other plates
2) you must purchase the trendsetter (imagesetter), plates, and laminator. (washout and dryer if you do not already have it)
3) you would have to contact a distributor for the price of the TIL.

Contact me if you would like to trial 1 colour test plates....

R
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Re: Kodak NXH plate

Postby Mr.Black » Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:22 pm

Hi Guys,

The plate requires a cutback just like in litho. However unlike traditional digital flexo plates the highlight dots do not require a bump. In traditional digital plates you would bump the 1% to a 3, 4, 5, 6% (depending on the plate material) and after it is processed the dot will come back down to a 1%.

Kodak produces a 1% dot with a 1% in the file.It is capable of producing dots as small as .4% - 10 microns (and hold this on press with out losing any dots)

Cheers,

R
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Re: Kodak NXH plate

Postby exflexo » Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:12 pm

I just looked at the demo movie on the Kodak website-

http://graphics.kodak.com/US/en/consuma ... efault.htm

The reason there is no need for a highlight bump is because the mask is ablated from a plastic medium and then laminated to the Kodak plate material. Since the plastic medium "seals" the plate, there is no oxygen to "round off" or shrink the dots. A highlight bump is required because if you didn't bump the highlights, 1 & 2% dots would shrink due to the fact that they are being exposed in an oxygen rich environment.

Frankly, I'm trying to figure how this process is any different from film. Most importantly, if the oxygen is sealed off via the plastic medium, how does Kodak avoid "window-paning"?

If anyone from Kodak reads these posts, It would be great if they could chime in....
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Re: Kodak NXH plate

Postby DrJohn » Thu May 07, 2009 5:41 pm

This is simple, the imaged emulsion side of the thermal imaging layer (TIL) is laminated face down onto the surface of the photopolymer, so there is no gap between image and the photopolymer, with the rest of the TIL acts as an oxygen barrier. What it means is the top of the dots are always the same as the image on the TIL, resulting in 1:1 image transfer.

john.anderson3@kodak.com
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Re: Kodak NXH plate

Postby exflexo » Fri May 08, 2009 12:23 am

I don't see how that is any different than an analog plate exposed with film. The film is in intimate contact with the plate and then the whole "sandwich" is sealed under a a vacuum sheet. Even then, oxygen seeps in around the perimiter of the plate.. which is the essence of "window paning". With the Kodak plate, the side of the the printing plate is exposed to open air, so oxygen is present around the edges.. but not in the middle because it is sealed off by the laminated TIL.

Unless there is something not being explained, it is just theoretically impossible for the Kodak plate to NOT experience window paning. If you are saying there is no window paning though, I would need to see hard proof.
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Re: Kodak NXH plate

Postby DrJohn » Sat May 09, 2009 8:02 pm

Exflexo, I hope I understand your question, let me try to add the missing pieces and see if I got it?

With traditional analog flexo plates, you need to cover the plate and film with a vacuum sheet and draw vacuum, this means that the imaged silver-halide film must be smaller than the plate, otherwise the vacuum sheet pulls the edges down on the film, breaking the local contact to the plate, resulting in image transfer issues. So as a result you have a band around the outside of the plate that is not covered with the film. You also have a slip cover on the analog plate material stopping intimate contact from photopolymer to film emulsion, and the gap between the emulsion and the photopolymer causes the image growth.

In the Flexcel NX system no vacuum is required; the Thermal Imaging Layer (TIL) is oversized for the plate, meaning that it is laminated to the entire plate surface, with no exposed band around the outside. The overhang of the TIL is between 0.5" and 1.5" on the various sides and ends of the plate. As with normal production practices, when the imaged, washed out and finished plate is ready, it is trimmed to final plate size ready for mounting.

Unlike analog plate manufacture the emulsion from the TIL is in intimate contact with the surface of the photopolymer, with no separating layers. Once laminated the TIL + plate combination have back and main exposure applied in sequence. The intimate contact between them results in 1:1 image transfer from the TIL to plate, and the elimination of oxygen results in a flat top dot structure.

The overhang on the TIL is important for delaminating the plate, it is returned to the vacuum table on the laminator, placed TIL down, vacuum drawn to hold it in place, and then the plate is simply gripped in a corner and steadily peeled off the TIL ready for punching and standard plate washout. If the TIL was not a little larger it would tend to lift locally with the plate edge during delaminating.

Hope this explains your issue, if you or anyone else wants to try the plate out to see for yourself, it really is a seeing is believing process, I would be happy to arrange.

Dr John
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Re: Kodak NXH plate

Postby exflexo » Sun May 10, 2009 10:36 pm

The TIL layer does not cover the sides of the plate though... so there is .067 of the side of the plate where oxygen seeps in. If you were to image a halftone close to the outer perimiter of a sheet of plate material, it would be lighter around those edges because oxygen molecules are free to pass into the polymer during the exposure phase.

Am I missing something or is the above a correct statement?
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Re: Kodak NXH plate

Postby DrJohn » Mon May 11, 2009 8:21 am

You are correct; there is a small chance of this at the edges, although it is very small because of the lamination. But as with normal plate making practices with almost all plate systems, it is not normal or recommended to image all the way to the edge of the plate, but to leave about a 0.5" gap at the outer edge of the plate, and so your potential issue at the very edge of the plate is eliminated by being in a non image area, and is often trimmed off. If you’re using an in-line processor one side of the plate must be punched for processing, as done for the Mekrom 300 and 500 series processors and so the gap of plate edge to image area on that side is larger.

Dr John
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Re: Kodak NXH plate

Postby exflexo » Mon May 11, 2009 12:28 pm

My experience with window paning is that it is quite a bit larger than 1/2". In analog, we used to add 3 inches of "buffer" around screened areas to avoid inconsistent halftones. Considering that an analog plate is exposed under a vacuum and the NXH plate is not, the sides of the plate might experience an even larger amount of oxygen seeping in.... although the lamination layer puts a different twist on it.
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Re: Kodak NXH plate

Postby astixjr » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:51 pm

Ran a test today using both the standard NX plate and the NX Digicap (sp?) on our gearless Bobst Schiavi 50" Alpha flexo press. I ran the test by surface printing on .001 Mil LDPE using Solvent based Magenta from Sun. The test plates were mounted on 3M's 1220 and then again with 1020. The anilox was an 800 line 3.5 bcm. I actually tested with both an ISO Sun Magenta and our regular 1190 base Sun Magenta. Earlier in the day I ran a G-7 FTA 4CP test with the ISO Sun inks using DFM with Plate Cell Patterns, all plates mounted on 3M's 1220 tape. Needless to say, I have a lot of samples and data to review in the next few days but so far, as near as I can tell, the Kodak NX material would appear to be a "game changer". If someone had told me that this material would allow me to run and hold a 200 line screen .4% dot using an 800 anilox I would have told them they were crazy. This plate material has the potential to put a modern flexo press right square in the middle of the roto market. I wish I owned a laminator and a few pouch machines so I could put this stuff to good use. :(
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Re: Kodak NXH plate

Postby Frank Burgos » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:04 am

Wow, astix. Thanks for the excellent report. This is very interesting. I look forward to your follow-up.

Nice to see you. Have a great weekend, you, and everyone else!

Frank
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